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Yanick View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Yanick Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Scion tC not in SS
    Posted: April.13.2006 at 7:54am
I'm pretty much a newbie to SCCA and would like to use a Scion tC for Solo and Club events.  The idea of being able to use a SS car for Stock solo appeals greatly to me, but the problem is that for some reason the tC is not listed in the GCR as an approved car for showroom stock racing - but if I wanted to get into Touring or GT, my car would be fine.

I'm trying to get a taste for both Solo and Club.  I would not like to commit to a Club Racing Touring car that would put me in a Solo classification with ridiculously modified cars who could crush my time.  (I also don't want to do T3 because they allow the tC to have a ridiculously expensive TRD supercharger that barely adds any horespower.)

So can anyone tell me why the Scion tC isn't allowed in SS but approved for faster categories?  Is there a way I can get my car approved for showroom stock so I could use the same vehicle for Stock Solo?
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paulgauzens View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote paulgauzens Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April.13.2006 at 10:09pm

Originally posted by Yanick Yanick wrote:

I'm pretty much a newbie to SCCA and would like to use a Scion tC for Solo and Club events.  The idea of being able to use a SS car for Stock solo appeals greatly to me, but the problem is that for some reason the tC is not listed in the GCR as an approved car for showroom stock racing - but if I wanted to get into Touring or GT, my car would be fine.

I'm trying to get a taste for both Solo and Club.  I would not like to commit to a Club Racing Touring car that would put me in a Solo classification with ridiculously modified cars who could crush my time.  (I also don't want to do T3 because they allow the tC to have a ridiculously expensive TRD supercharger that barely adds any horespower.)

So can anyone tell me why the Scion tC isn't allowed in SS but approved for faster categories?  Is there a way I can get my car approved for showroom stock so I could use the same vehicle for Stock Solo?

You can Solo a Club Race car - but no matter whether it is in SS or T, you won't Solo it in the Stock Class.  It must be run in Street Prepared.  As for the reason for the T3 Club Race clasification, that was where the potential of the car was initially pegged (considering the supercharger option). 

If you want to run in Solo Stock form - it's already clased in H Stock.  Maybe see how you do there since you don't want to bolt on the Super?

PaulG

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Yanick View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Yanick Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April.13.2006 at 11:08pm
Originally posted by paulgauzens paulgauzens wrote:

You can Solo a Club Race car - but no matter whether it is in SS or T, you won't Solo it in the Stock Class.  It must be run in Street Prepared.


I don't believe that's correct.  Here's last paragraph of section 13.0 in the 2006 Solo Rulebook:

Cars listed as eligible in and prepared to the current national Showroom Stock Club Racing rules are permitted to compete in their respective Solo Stock Classes. This does not include Showroom Stock cars with installations of post-factory “performance packages” otherwise known as “trunk kits”. Neither Showroom Stock nor Solo Stock cars are permitted to interchange preparation rules. Showroom Stock cars may use tires which areeligible under current SS rules, even if they are not eligible in Stock.

So unless I've read that wrong and am completely mistaken, I could theoretically use an '06 Acura RSX Type-S that was prepared for Showroom Stock (SSB) in Stock Solo (GS) events.

Originally posted by paulgauzens paulgauzens wrote:

As for the reason for the T3 Club Race clasification, that was where the potential of the car was initially pegged (considering the supercharger option). 



That makes sense, but I just don't understand why there isn't a supercharger-less tC in Showroom Stock club racing.  The supercharger is not part of the production model.  There are no stock tCs with the supercharger installed before you buy the car. 

The supercharger is an aftermarket Toyota Racing Development product that is sold and professionally installed at Scion dealerships.
http://www.trdusa.com/tcsupercharger_important_info.asp

So why make things difficult for the newbies?   I just want to get a feel for what the SCCA has to offer without shelling out anymore cash than I have to.

Racing school isn't cheap!


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paulgauzens View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote paulgauzens Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April.13.2006 at 11:28pm

You are right about the straight SS cars fitting into their stock classes.  But with the Supercharger I thought you'd be bumped up.  My Neon gets pushed up to DSP although I race it in SSC for Club Races.  That's because certain competitive adjustments (even in SS) will bump you out of Solo Stock.

I understand about the desire to control costs and the reason I think nobody asked to classify the car in SS is because the SCCA is going through a clkass "shake-up" between SS and Touring.  The SS classes might be all gone by end of '06 season.

There are a group of SS racers who share your feelings.  If you feel strongly - please write the Board of Directors to keep SS alive! 

PaulG

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Yanick View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Yanick Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April.14.2006 at 11:59pm
Originally posted by paulgauzens paulgauzens wrote:

My Neon gets pushed up to DSP although I race it in SSC for Club Races.  That's because certain competitive adjustments (even in SS) will bump you out of Solo Stock.


That sounds like you're getting the short end of the deal there.  I'd whip out the rulebook if somebody tried to put me in a class the rules say I don't belong in.

Originally posted by paulgauzens paulgauzens wrote:

I understand about the desire to control costs and the reason I think nobody asked to classify the car in SS is because the SCCA is going through a clkass "shake-up" between SS and Touring.  The SS classes might be all gone by end of '06 season.

There are a group of SS racers who share your feelings.  If you feel strongly - please write the Board of Directors to keep SS alive! 



I suppose I picked a confusing time to become interested in the SCCA then.  After reading through the forums about similar topics, it seems that the SCCA is becoming a massive rule making machine that angers and confuses racers.

Is there a way I can find information on what the SCCA plans on doing with Touring, Showroom Stock, Club cars wanting to participate in Solo so I can make some informed car decisions?
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JSirota View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JSirota Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April.15.2006 at 12:30am
Originally posted by Yanick Yanick wrote:

I'd whip out the rulebook if somebody tried to put me in a class the rules say I don't belong in.


Here's the part of the Solo rules that applies here:

Quote Cars listed as eligible in and prepared to the current national Showroom Stock Club Racing rules are permitted to compete in their respective Solo II Stock Classes.  This does not include Showroom Stock cars with installations of post-factory "performance packages" otherwise known as "trunk kits".


The second sentence is what makes Paul's car to to Street Prepared -- if he didn't include the special allowances for the Neon on his car, he could run in Stock, but because he's using the trunk kit allowances, he is no longer legal in stock and has to class it as though he were simply autocrossing it (i.e., the fact that it's prepared to a different set of rules is irrelevant).

As far as the Scion is concerned: the car isn't listed at all in Showroom Stock, as the original poster mentioned.  If he were to prepare it to the T3 specs, he could run it in Street Prepared, even with the supercharger.  That's because the extra rule about trunk kits isn't mentioned in the SP heading in the Solo rules -- it simply allows cars prepared to the Touring rules to compete in their appropriate Street Prepared class.  I assume the Scion tC is in DSP -- pretty nice to be able to run a supercharged car in DSP.

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Yanick View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Yanick Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April.15.2006 at 6:13am
Originally posted by JSirota JSirota wrote:



As far as the Scion is concerned: the car isn't listed at all in Showroom Stock, as the original poster mentioned.  If he were to prepare it to the T3 specs, he could run it in Street Prepared, even with the supercharger.  That's because the extra rule about trunk kits isn't mentioned in the SP heading in the Solo rules -- it simply allows cars prepared to the Touring rules to compete in their appropriate Street Prepared class.  I assume the Scion tC is in DSP -- pretty nice to be able to run a supercharged car in DSP.



That brings me back to my question:

Why can't there be a supercharger-less tC in showroom stock?

The reason I'm so adamant about not putting a supercharger on my tC is simply due to cost issues.  The product costs approximately $3000, and takes a 160-hp car to 200-hp.

40 horsepower should not cost $3000 dollars for entry level racing.

I'm sorry, but the cost/result ratio is simply not working out for me there - and it doesn't work out for any tC owner in their right mind.  I've seen and have driven plenty a tC with less than $1500 invested in performance parts than can blow a TRD Supercharged tC away.  The only problem was, those cars have only done modifications legal only for GT3, and have a long way to go before completing all the mods necessary to compete in  GT.

The fact that I would be forced to spend over 3 grand (supercharger, roll cage, driver's seat, etc) to race competitively is ridiculous.  It makes me not want to use the tC for SCCA Club Racing at all.

How do I go about contacting the SCCA for car classification purposes?  If they're considering turning Showroom Stock into T4, then I would really like to see a stock tC in there.
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paulgauzens View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote paulgauzens Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April.15.2006 at 7:38am

Josh described the correct reason my Neon is in DSP.  I don't feel "pushed" into a class - it is exactly what the rulebook said so I compete with eyes wide open and no complaint. (PS: Won the frist Solo of the season in DSP so not really a problem).

We prolly started talking cars and classification too quickly here to help you with your questions.  So here's some thoughts fo you.

My first suggestion is to join SCCA (you'll see why later). 

If you are a member already, there is usually a forum or webpage that your local Region hosts where you can find the names of your local Solo team and Club Race officials.  Your area has some great folks who have already kept up-to-date on the history of topics like Solo classing for Club Race cars - and the whole controversy over T3/T4 and SSB/SSC migration.  You could tap their knowledge via emails or phone calls.

Based on your forum profile, maybe you would be in the DC Region and then your contacts are> http://www.wdcr-scca.org/email/contacts.php and if that's true, they have a Solo site, too> http://solo.wdcr-scca.org/.

If that's not true, you can find all the regional sites at> http://www.scca.com/Inside/Index.asp?IdS=000003-55ACC80& Reference=regionalwebsites

If you are a member and want to go deeper about the tC's classing matter - then make input to the Club Racing Board> http://www.scca.com/Club/crb/crbletter.html.  You can tackle making a reclassification yourself by submitting the paperwork - but it is not the easiest process.  You would make your request via CRB and also file a Vehicle Tech Sheet.  I've done it once and felt it was fairly handled, but the decision is not a fast-track.  You can't file for T4 yet since it is not a class, but you could file for SSC (like the un-supercharged Cobalt SS) and it would convert to T4 if/when that conversion takes place...  I would support that and many others might, too.

If you are not a member, then all that is moot.  The club prolly would not react to non-member requests.

If you don't already have good Solo experience elsewhere - or Club-level Racing experience, and wanted to start with minimal investment, I would show up at a local Solo event and run as a Novice for a couple of events.  Stay during lunch break and talk to others who are posting good times.  Get into a Novice School.  Build up your seat time and then see where that takes you. 

For the Club Race part, you could volunteer as a flagging or grid worker if you don't go directly into a Driver's School in your first year.  You will get a good eye on what's what at your Regional racing scene first-hand.

You can prolly run Solo as a non member and gain experience in the tC in H Stock (where I believe I found it in the clasification section for Stock).  But you must join if you want to race door-to-door.

On you final point about the supercharger for the tC and the HP/cost gain - let me agree that the $3000 could go better elsewhere.  But consider the whole rulebook as you contemplate a build-out.  The folks at Phoenix Performance routinely spend that much and more (up to $5K) on a well built cage.  Stiffening that tC and protecting your noggin will get you off to a good start.  BTW, the super will make more HP when you consider that you can fiddle with the ECU and mapping s/w to get more out of the FI than the stock HP gain.

Hope that is more helpful - I agree that your timing for SS is unique since we are about to make a T4 change (perhaps).  But don't let that discourage you.

 

PaulG

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Yanick View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Yanick Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April.20.2006 at 1:56pm

I appreciate all the input and advice.  I've been planning to attend a WDCR solo event at the FedEX Field parking lot this Sunday (as a spectator) and hopefully learn as much as I can.

As for joining the the SCCA, I finally received my membership card in the mail just a couple of days ago.  As a member, I'm sure I'll have better luck being heard when it comes to getting the CRB - if I decide to use the tC.  I'm still having second thoughts about that supercharger...

Most likely I'll do a couple of solo events before I attend a racing school in the summer, and hopefully by the time I'm elligible to race I'll have this whole race car thing figured out.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RichardM Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April.20.2006 at 2:06pm
Yanick, If you are worried about the $3000 for the supercharger, you should be really worried about the $15000 for the car and the other $5000 for the safety gear to get it on the track. All of the money can be lost in a second on the race track. Insurance does not cover a car crashed in wheel to wheel racing.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JSirota Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April.20.2006 at 3:26pm
Update: according to the latest Fastrack, released today:

Effective 5/1/06:
T3: Scion tC (2005), p. 27, based on new information supplied to the National Office indicating the supercharger is an aftermarket part the CRB
is making the following correction; correct the specs by deleting the Notes in their entirety.

So now some of this argument is a moot point -- the supercharger isn't allowed in T3 or in Solo's stock category.  Now the next question is ... why is it in T3, and not in Showroom Stock?

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 4kbeast Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December.09.2010 at 4:38pm
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